Our guests: Danielle Lord, PHD Co-Founder COMPASS, Michon Garemani, CHP Co-Founder COMPASS, Mark Kestner, MD Senior Clinical Advisor
Welcome to another episode of Drug Diversion Insights! Today, we delve into an important and often overlooked aspect of healthcare: the support mechanisms available for medical providers affected by stress and strain. We’re joined by the founders of COMPASS, an innovative initiative standing for Coaching or Mentoring for Providers Affected by Stress and Strain.
In this episode, we’ll examine the difference between debriefing—a common practice in many hospitals that focuses on the mechanics of medical procedures—and the more personalized approaches of coaching and mentoring. Does debriefing address the emotional and psychological stresses that healthcare professionals might experience, or does it primarily focus on procedural aspects?
Our guests will share insights on their vision for COMPASS—a free support mechanism designed to offer practical and accessible help to those in the healthcare field. We’ll discuss the stigma that often surrounds seeking help and how COMPASS aims to create a non-traditional yet effective way for providers to connect and receive support.
Tune in to learn how COMPASS is paving the way for better mental health and resilience in healthcare, and why addressing these issues is crucial for the well-being of our medical professionals. For more information on Drug Diversion mitigation and resources, visit: https://www.rxpert.solutions/
Transcript:
Terri
Welcome back, listeners, to Diversion Insights. My guests today are Mishon Garemani, a trauma recovery coach, Danielle Lord, a business owner and compass business partner with Michon. Their business idea is going to be part of our conversation today. And doctor Mark Kestner, who in addition to being a critical care surgeon, has held the position of chief medical officer, chief quality officer, I’m sure many more things. And so we’re going to hear from him as well, too, on his back. Both Danielle and Mark are also part of the pronexus advisory group. Danielle, let’s start with you. Your background is not in healthcare specifically, but you did do a dissertation on a topic related to healthcare. So let’s start with that. Give us your background and some information on the topic that you chose for your dissertation and what you learned from it.
Danielle
Great, great. Thanks, Terri. So, yeah, I actually do have a background in healthcare, not as a healthcare practitioner myself. 25 of my 32 years doing the work that I do in organizational development have been in skilled nursing, medical equipment manufacturing and hospitals, their health systems. So I was working actually on the federal nursing shortage on a grant, which really piqued my curiosity in the early late 1990s, early two thousands around the nursing shortage and what the issues were the nursing community was facing in terms of those shortages. So as I looked at it from my perspective of leadership development, organizational development, I saw the nursing shortage through a different lens. And so I looked at it from the area of what’s called socialization. Most people know it as onboarding, and that was how nurses get enculturated into the profession of nursing.
Danielle
And so what I learned by going through that process is that nursing is actually very traumatic in and of itself because of the way that most nurses treat the novice nurses that are coming into the profession. Most nurses know it as they eat their young. And it’s very true. There’s really no opportunity for young nurses entering the profession to feel successful during the first years just by the way that they’re treated. So that was a fascinating discovery there. Later, when I was managing physician leadership development for a large healthcare system, did some further research on physicians as they were entering leadership, moving or transitioning from clinician or clinical practice into leadership. And their experience was equally traumatic as well, based on that research and those insights with those physicians. So it kind of moved into this whole area of trauma and compassion.
Danielle
And I find the work very interesting. I think we are in a place societally where we are all suffering and experiencing what I call institutionalized trauma enunciate a little better here on a Monday morning. So it’s been a fascinating journey and continue to do this work with Michon as we’ve partnered up.
Terri
Interesting. So I want to. I don’t want to lose track of something that you said. Did you find a reason for the whole nursing. Eat their young and they’re not very nice to. I mean, what is? I can’t imagine.
Danielle
I think later exploration and work in emotional intelligence was very informative around this topic. So some of the early researchers, Goleman and Boyatis, who have done a lot of work in this area, have discovered what they call mirror neurons, and that informs us that we will mirror behavior that we’ve been exposed to over time, especially when that behavior has been rewarded. So while my dissertation didn’t cover that aspect of it, I was a little before emotional intelligence became part of our lexicon. I think that in and of itself is very informative.
Terri
Interesting. Yeah. I spoke to someone recently, she’s a young, she just graduated, maybe within last year, and I was asking her, how are you enjoying your job? She’s a nurse. She’s in a recovery type of setting. She hates it. Absolutely hates it. And it just breaks my heart. She was so excited. Her sister’s a nurse and she just. It’s miserable.
Danielle
Yeah. Yeah, it’s. It’s pretty awful. Yeah. You know, these young kids, men and women, spend a lot of money, time, effort, resources to get into a profession where they really believe that they’re going to be helping, only to find that, oh, boy, this is actually pretty awful just from that inculcation experience. So.
Terri
Yeah. Yeah, it is. Okay, Michon, let’s go to you. Tell us a little bit about your background, and then tell us a little bit about this partnership that you’re doing with Danielle.
Mark
Sure.
Michon
Sure. Well, thank you so much, Terri, for having us myself here today. Compass has come about, which is an acronym, excuse me, an acronym for the work that we’re doing. And in particular, Compass is making a connection to the compassion that we are seeing in lack of. Right. The lack in the healthcare field for this compassionate experience. So Compass is born out of that visual field of seeing and that heart space field of noticing where this is missing. Compass is aiming to offer coaching and mentoring for those that experience trauma in the clinical setting.
Michon
And what we’re trying to do here is align both my education, my somatic educational experience and training with Danielle’s back end experience of seeing that in the healthcare management side and bring together this force to expose and not just stay in the exposure site, but bring remedy, bring real skill sets to people that are needing care for trauma on the job, trauma in management sectors, in the true clinical setting. And Danielle has a wealth of information that she’s brought to the forum for me. And then we are working together to bring our own coaching panel together. We are serving coaches, bringing them together and then hopefully bringing in clinicians that then can utilize these resources. So it’s a beautiful experience and it’s a free offering.
Michon
That’s one of the ways that we’re giving into the community is our knowledge, our experience, and asking other coaches that we’re aligning with to offer their services as well for the compass program. And those that are in attendance are then able to utilize the program that we put together. Learning, we’re going to say modules for the sake of. We have yet to find a better word. Right. But learning programs, and then if needed, then those that are in attendance can then work one one with those that are on our panel if they wanted to further explore a particular avenue of recovery or trauma healing. So just bringing this together, I feel like there’s a richness here that we are still very much putting together an exploration of what. Of what the need really is.
Michon
And we’re finding that the more we sit into this, the more this is deepening and how pervasive it is. We have targeted the healthcare field, but my background particularly is in education. So Danielle has healthcare in her background. My field of background is in education. And the educational system is no less vulnerable for a lack of training of how to actually care for that EQ, that emotional quality in our student body. Right. It’s a children student body, that adolescent body, and they’re no less vulnerable. In fact, perhaps even more vulnerable to the threats of trauma as they are young individuals that don’t necessarily have skill sets and processes to put in place to aid themselves. So in that setting, we find children that are not equipped and that, and interestingly enough, parents that are not equipped. And so you’ve got this.
Michon
So at least as a teacher, it’s funny because you teach children, but you really teach parents as well.
Terri
Yeah.
Michon
And it becomes a full spectrum experience, and it just becomes very relevant that it’s so pervasive and families are lacking skill sets. And then these are, you know, families are made up of people that then go to work and transmit that, that lack or that trauma onto their workspace as well. So it’s. It’s just very pervasive. Yeah.
Terri
Yeah. All right. I want to talk more in a bit about the. I know you’re in the early stages of rolling this out, and how do people get engaged and find out about you? So we’ll talk more about that. But first, I wanted to introduce Mark. So, Mark. Mark, as I said, is a physician by training. And. Interesting, your dissertation, Danielle covered that. That’s a hard transition for physicians as well, going into leadership. So that might be interesting to hear Mark’s perspective on that. That, because he did transition into leadership. But were all talking about the idea for compass versus debriefing, and that’s what Mark and I are familiar with, you know, debriefing. And so that’s what I want to hear about.
Terri
And then we’ll talk about the similarities or differences that, you know, may be completely different, and we’re going to talk about that. So, Mark, give us a little bit of your background and launch us into that.
Mark
Yeah. So I’m looking in the camera at this old person, right? I’ve been in health care for about 40 years. I did the first 15 years as a trauma critical care surgeon, where I was clinically delivering care. At that point, I got fed up with everything being broken around me. And for the next 20 years, I tried to streamline the business of healthcare. And I think I was fairly successful at some of the organizations I was at. I was at a chief medical officer, chief quality officer, and really dove into the business of healthcare and why it’s so broken. And for the last five years, I’ve been working with software companies that are selling in the healthcare space as a strategic clinical advisor. So that’s my background.
Mark
To your point, though, earlier, I was used to debriefing, and I felt it was good for the team to debrief after each trauma, or we would do educational rounds in the ICU where we would talk about everything other than the clinical condition. So we’d talk about barriers to discharge. And is the team gelling around this person or nothing? And things like that. So those are the types of things that I was used to in the clinical arena. But this sounds altogether different, and I think it could work. It’s altogether different.
Terri
Yeah, it is. And we had kind of talked about that a little bit at first. The first thought was, well, why do we already do that?
Michon
Yeah.
Terri
And then, you know, in a debrief, though, you’re talking more about what went well. Right? Maybe what went wrong, how prevent this from going wrong again. There’s no. There’s no discussion about how potentially the case affected you. I mean, you know, you’re hoping that there was a positive outcome, but especially with, you know, trauma, it’s. That’s definitely not always going to be a positive outcome. So many negative things potentially happened, but that was never addressed. Right. It was just the facts of the case itself.
Mark
Yeah. You know, we never really asked individuals, do you need help? It was always the case. And, you know, occasionally you would notice somebody being a little shy or a little detached and you would have a very superficial conversation with them, but you didn’t offer ongoing support.
Terri
Right. Yeah. Whereas this idea for compass is completely different. Right?
Mark
Right.
Danielle
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think what sets compass apart is the opportunity to, and don’t misunderstand at all. I think those post clinical debriefings are very important. Like any debriefing of anything strategic or operational in nature, we’ve got to always be finding those quality opportunities in areas where we have barriers. But compass is different because we are bringing together folks who have experienced situations but don’t necessarily feel comfortable in airing those frustrations, pain, anger, whatever label you want to put around it within their current workplace. And so they don’t feel that they have anyone to turn to. It’s typically not dinnertime conversation. Anyone who has never been in those situations doesn’t really understand it. There’s often kind of the squeamish factor of eW. I don’t want to hear. Right. And so who do they turn to?
Danielle
And so even peer groups within healthcare settings are frequently seen as very taboo because if I don’t feel that this nurse is able to pick up the functionality of the patients in the beds today, what do I need to do about that? Do I need to be worried about my own license? Is this a quality issue? Do I need to bring this up to somebody? Are they going to be removed from the schedule? So I think that stigma, that fear of that stigma is ongoing within our healthcare institutions. So compass does, is hoping to be different by providing a space for caregivers to come together, perhaps even find peer to peer support by connecting with folks in compass, that they might be able to call up and say, hey, I’ve had a really rough day today.
Danielle
And that peer support person can say, don’t forget to practice your square breathing or go for a walk or do something that is going to remind that caregiver to have some self care and self compassion for what it is that they just experienced. So I think that’s what Michon and I are really trying to do, is try to provide some non traditional modalities to help people through the frustration, pain, anger, whatever they’re experiencing in that moment so they can go back into the workplace and be a better clinician with their patients.
Terri
Yeah. And I had mentioned to this group before, and for those of you that maybe have watched the podcast with Mitch, it’s also on this topic, and they are fortunate enough to have something within their facility where they can have these discussions, but a lot of places don’t. And, you know, I think what he had touched upon, which I think is very true, is it’s not something we’re ever trained for, those of us that are licensed healthcare professionals. I mean, I never took a class on that. I don’t know if they’re, you know, focusing more on it now because I’ve been in it almost as long as you have, Mark. And so nobody told me about that.
Michon
And.
Terri
And the first time somebody, you know, passed away on my table while I was in a code blue, it was like, whoa. Like, you know, and especially, I’m like, I’m a pharmacist. Why is this happening in front of me? I mean, the trauma surgeon maybe, right? You expect it, but here I was attending code blue, so that came with the job. And you look around the room, and nobody seems to have a problem with the fact that this person just died. And so you’re internalizing this. Is it just me that has this problem? Because everybody else seems perfectly fine. There’s not really anybody to talk about with, and you certainly don’t want to appear emotional when nobody else is. That would just take away my whole professionalism. Right. And so I think that’s part of. Yes, you have the debrief of what happened.
Terri
I mean, in this case, really, the debrief was, anybody have a problem with me calling the code? You’re like, what? I have to say yes or no to this question. And so we do kind of forget that this is not a normal thing, all of the stuff that we. We go through. And you said something, too, that made me think, I mean, there are different personalities as well. Right? So there may be times where whoever’s leading the code or whatever surgeon you have or whoever’s in charge, maybe you don’t feel did a really great job or, you know, they were yelling at you and didn’t really treat the rest of the staff very well. And so all of that kind of comes with it. There’s also the outcome, too, but there’s. How did you get to that outcome?
Michon
Yes.
Danielle
Yeah.
Michon
I’d like to just add a thought here. On the stigma surrounding our voice, having a voice to express in a professional setting some discomfort or something that is upsetting. And I would love to. And this is what Danielle and I are doing. We’re challenging the idea that’s right now is commonplace. It’s acceptable. No one is even speaking up, that no one said anything. And that is the essence of what we’re addressing, that it’s so hush to imagine that if it’s so hush that no one is experiencing it. No, that is false. I would just say on some degree, in every hospital space, in clinician space, this is taking place to everybody present at a unique level. And maybe it may not be right then in the moment, but it. It does come. Our experiences do shape us and they do influence us.
Michon
And I would love for it to be no longer a stigma and a taboo. To be able to say that was very overwhelming to me. How. Where do I find connection to. To restore. To restore a moment of wellness?
Mark
So what is your ongoing relationship or evolving relationship with the quality department? Because they ultimately need to address this shortage of clinicians. Right. It is going to affect the quality of care, but in the same token, it seems as if you may be talking about Phi or patient identification. So do you have a relationship with the quality department?
Michon
Mark, are you addressing me or Danielle?
Mark
Any, anyone, whoever has the answer.
Danielle
And that would be no. At this point in time, we’re still in the infancy stage. But I really appreciate the suggestion. I think that probably is a really great place to start because. Yeah, this does impact quality of patient care by staffing shortages. Right. Mom had to spend three nights in the hallway because there was no ability for throughput. They had to shut a unit down because there wasn’t enough staff. The nurse came in and didn’t care that they hurt mom when they ripped the iv out. You know, those are all the things that impact quality and ultimately, then patient satisfaction scores as well, which has always been such an oxymoron to me, but that’s another conversation. But it’s a great suggestion, really, to start with those quality departments.
Mark
Yeah. I think if. If the healthcare system knew that their quality department was behind this, you may have an easier time.
Danielle
Yeah, yeah. It’s a great suggestion. Great suggestion. Thank you for that. The other. Oh, the other thing that I would like to add, too, just on top of that is, yeah. There is this expectation that you’ve gone into a clinical role and you are going to see terrible things that happen anywhere within the healthcare continuum. I think what’s different now, especially after coming out of the COVID years, where I think we can say we experienced global trauma together. Right. And I don’t think that the outcomes of that aren’t yet fully realized. We’ve also seen an increase in violence in the hospital settings. We still have needle sticks that happen. We still have nurses and clinicians who see really awful abuse that occurs in the family or the violence that occurs on the streets in some of our larger cities.
Danielle
So all of that, what I call institutionalized trauma, we haven’t even talked about the music industry and the architecture, and even the words that we use in business sometimes can be brutal. We have bullet points and we have strategy, execution. And I could go on and on about the language that’s kind of brutal, but all of that compounding upon us is just adding to the stress that our clinicians experience when they see something awful within doing their daily work. So I think that is something that we have to take into account as well. So I think clinicians really have a compounding effect that most folks who don’t work in healthcare do not experience. They’re still experiencing some of those other things, but then they’ve got. The clinicians are experiencing it through the work and the interactions that they see daily.
Mark
Yeah, yeah, I think you bring up a good point. Life has changed post Covid, and who knows what it’s going to be in the near future, right. When I go to the hospital, my wife and I wear masks. Who would have thought to wear a mask before? But yet that adds another barrier between us and the clinician, right? Or the clinician comes in and wears a mask. There’s got to be a way to debrief about that.
Terri
Yeah, I mean, I think one good thing that came out of it was what you were referring to, Danielle, in terms of the whole mental health, where even people that maybe still won’t admit it or are reluctant to admit it experienced something through that whole thing. So it makes it more. There’s. I feel, it seems anyway, maybe it’s just the space that I’m in, but I feel that it’s lowered the stigma a little bit because you could blame it on that. Right? Before, you wouldn’t necessarily talk about the emotions that you were feeling or the stress or, you know, but now I feel like a lot of people are talking about it, so it kind of makes it more okay to talk about it. For those that used to be like, nope, you know, I’m fine.
Mark
Right?
Danielle
Yeah.
Terri
Yeah. So I think that was maybe one positive thing that came out of it. But you’re right. I didn’t think about, you know, the, you’re right. The masks, they put kind of a barrier. Yeah. Yeah. There’s a lot to this topic. How do you, and maybe you’re not there yet, but what is your, what are your thoughts in terms of getting the information out? Like, how can people get connected with this service?
Danielle
Miss Sean, you want to take that one?
Michon
Yeah. Well, Danielle and I are working with right now, a social media avenue is how we’ve been promoting. We’ve been using the platform of LinkedIn, our personal LinkedIn profiles and other social media forums. We belong also within a networking group within Tacoma area, and we have been sharing compass with those that we network with there. I have nursing friends and other colleagues of my own that I have shared the message with. Danielle has as well. And Daniella is also involved in other networking groups that she has made contact with and sharing compass, we are able to, at this time, I feel that we’ve had some really good support in bringing together people that are really interested in being on the supportive end.
Michon
So now the efforts are really to draw in the right persons who can benefit from the work from the, this collective unit that we’re building. So they’re, we’re trying to really get the word out so that we can get the clinicians in and really get the right people to be able to be serviced.
Mark
Yeah, I think a booth at the quality meeting, at national quality meeting would be a great idea.
Danielle
Love that.
Mark
Yeah. Yeah. So I think that would be a great place to sort of showcase your strength.
Terri
Okay.
Michon
Thank you.
Terri
And in terms of the people to be on the supportive end, are you looking for people with a certain kind of background or certification.
Michon
Danielle has done? I would say Danielle has taken the lead on more of that screening side. And, Danielle, do you, if you want to sponsor that?
Danielle
Yeah, I think anyone who’s in kind of the coaching or healing space, that is kind of a nontraditional modality. So we have right now a smoking cessation specialist. Of course, we have Michon, who’s a trauma specialist. We are looking for a nutritionist, someone who can help re guide someone into nutrition. What’s the first thing we do when we get into those stressful situations? We just want to have sugar. All right. Or alcohol or something that is. Yeah. Something that is not healthy for us. So I’m trying to think of some of the other coaches. We’ve got a coach who specializes in yoga. We have a nurse who has specialized in burnout as well. So any of those coaches who might be interested to say, yeah, I’ve got a specialization in a non allopathic area, would be welcome to welcome the conversation with you.
Danielle
We are really trying to go the non allopathic route in this particular aspect because I think that a lot of folks, in my humble opinion, I’ve not done any research in this area, but I do think people want something that can be more healing at the root rather than just another script for a benzo or an SSRI or just more talk therapy. So we’re really trying to help folks alleviate that trauma, that frustration, stress, anger, fear, whichever it is, from the root cause.
Michon
And this is a collective unit. So even in, even if somebody doesn’t pursue a one one with one of the coaches, it can remain a collective, supportive group and support in that way. We want it to be very individual or very even touchpoints. So if you want to make one visit in, we’re hoping that one visit is going to set you on a path and a trajectory for additional healing with or without us. We want every point of contact to be focused, to lend itself to a modality that you can take away with some insight right here, right now. And if you want to continue, then please stay. But if you want further work, please reach out to one of our coaches and pursue that individual. So it. We’re looking to have it be here and now and also very long term.
Mark
So let’s just say I’m feeling stressed. How would I know what modality is going to work?
Michon
Well, Danielle and I have structured our compass learning spaces to be where one of our coaches is going to be a presenter at each of these meetings. And so we will address that through social media ahead of time, of who will be presenting and to know if that may align to with your interest. Right. So we are also establishing a website to put all of our coaches on, like this visual community and have resources there, blogging tools and access through that portal. So if someone comes in stress, how do we, how do they know who may assist them? We have that digital resource that they can tap into ahead of time, but hoping to build more than just an Internet connection, we’re looking to build a one one, more intimate connection and inviting people to the conversation. Yes. Next.
Danielle
Yeah, thanks, Michon. I think the other thing that we are planning to do is building out a resource or a toolkit of resources so that we can have a whole variety of. If this is your somatic response that you’re having these are some of the different tools or techniques that you might be able to employ quickly to help you overcome that stress response. So there will be quick things that you could do plus the more long term things like working or contracting one to one with some of the coaches.
Terri
Yeah, I see where your question is coming from, Mark. It’s almost like, you know, when you go to a recovery center, recovery program, they have an intake coordinator. Right. That kind of like, let me talk to you. What’s going on? And then they kind of direct you. Here’s this treatment center. This is what we need to do. And so if I just got on the call first with the nutritionist, like, oh, I got to stop eating these cupcakes every time I get stressed out. And they don’t, like, I don’t know that there’s other. Oh, never thought about yoga or, you know. So how do you know what’s available and then start getting kind of plugged in to where you could begin that journey and then discover other things?
Mark
Yep, yep.
Terri
Yeah, yeah.
Danielle
And hopefully our lengthy list of resources can help with that as well so that it’s not just. This is the one approach that we use. So really making sure all of that is very clearly spelled out in our toolkit on the website. Great question.
Terri
Keep us thinking things to think about. Right. Well, always when you get a new group of people together that have different perspectives, there’s different things. And, you know, I wonder, too. I mean, of course, what you want to do is to reach people. You know, there are people in healthcare that already have therapists, and so they’re probably already having these conversations and doing some of these things.
Michon
Things.
Terri
And that’s great. But where the. The big need is, are for the people that don’t already have a therapist and they don’t think they need a therapist.
Danielle
Yeah.
Terri
Yeah. You know, it’s like, whatever. I mean, I just go to work and get it done and this happens and this is, you know, or. Yeah, that doctor yelled at me again because, you know, he’s really mean and he yells at everybody. Right. So the whole bullying. Right. There’s bullying on the nurse’s perspective and the doctor’s perspective. I don’t know about pharmacists. I suppose there are a few of us bullies out there, but how do we reach the people that don’t think.
Danielle
They need it or don’t want the traditional approach to this as well? So I think there is a population that says, is there a different way to recover from some of this without that more traditional approach.
Terri
Okay. All right. Kind of dip your toe in the water and it doesn’t have to. I have a therapist, you know, it’s okay. All right, I’ll buy that. Do you think we’re going to get positions to participate?
Mark
Yeah, I do think if you present it in a non threatening manner. Right. I think the idea, we’re talking about big ideas here, but some of it sounds like I don’t need that. Right. Whereas if it becomes more matter of fact in the healthcare system, people begin to realize and reach out. So I think that’s where you really have to be. Not of them or not beside them, but integrate with them. Right.
Michon
Yes.
Mark
And so that becomes a much less threatening approach, I think.
Michon
And what everybody will deem as threatening. Right. Has a different criteria. Yeah.
Mark
Right. But the more you make it just matter of fact that everybody is feeling this way and these are the resources you have, then you wouldn’t feel as threatened.
Michon
Yeah.
Terri
Yeah, that’s true. If it becomes just a natural offering. Hey, which one of these will work best for you?
Mark
Right.
Terri
You know, to deal with your trauma and stress. It’s not like, do you have trauma and stress?
Michon
Yeah, I think that’s what Danielle and I have definitely concluded that it is. It is, it exists and whether. So here’s what’s interesting, is the acknowledgement. At what point do I acknowledge or where am I in my stage of acknowledging that I am in that state? And then what do I do about it? Is there something to do about it? Maybe I’m quite content. I know plenty of people that are quite content in their struggle. Yeah. And then they don’t seek service. And you know what? I don’t think we’re not really in the, we’re not really trying to push people into that. We want people that are already or leaning into awareness that are seeking. We hope everybody would see the ideal here there of this compass method that everybody can benefit from learning a new adaptive strategy.
Terri
Right, right, yeah. And of course, tying it into substance use disorder. Right. Hoping to either get those people before they get to that point and are using those types of alternative methods to deal with their stress. Or on the flip side, those that have been through treatment and recovery, you can offer them yet another support avenue to help them maintain that health that they have gotten back.
Danielle
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Terri
Okay, great. Any final thoughts before we wrap it up?
Danielle
Can we share emails for if people are interested? Okay. So you can reach me, Danielle Lord@danielchetypelearningsolutions.com. That’s my email address archetypelearningsolutions.com. The things you think about or don’t think about when you’re naming your business. How long is my email address going to be? Miss Sean, do you want to share your contact information?
Michon
Yeah, I operate rooted to rise coaching and rooted to rise uses the number two. So again, obviously, I mean, spell it out versus the number. Right. But there was a reason for that because it takes two to bring into connection. Right.
Mark
So if you want to get a hold of either of those ladies and you forget their email address, mine’s real simplemail.com.
Michon
Thank you.
Terri
Yes. And does compass have a LinkedIn page or is it through each of your pages right now?
Michon
Individually, but we’re working on that. That’s coming up. Yeah.
Terri
Yeah. All right. So these and that. Your names will be put on the podcast so people can also find you on LinkedIn as well and message you directly. Keep it easy. All right, great. Well, this is a good discussion. And I think, you know, originally the thought was, well, we already debriefed, why do we need this? Right. But debriefing does not tackle. Not at most. I mean, I guess we need to be careful with our definitions, too. I find that people have different definitions for things, so it is quite possible that there is an institution out there. And actually, I’d love to hear from you if you do have something like that incorporates the emotional or stress side.
Terri
I don’t want to say emotional because, you know, again, there you got the stigma, but that piece of it, the more personal side during a debriefing situation. And maybe there are places that do incorporate that and that would be great. You know, and another place that you guys could reach out to, I would think would be licensed, professional boards, licensing boards.
Danielle
That is a good idea that it’s.
Terri
Available and maybe they can put it on. I know they can’t typically, like, support and advertise for people, but perhaps they have a resource, you know, center or something that they can list these things and just direct people to as another alternative for a resource. So. And then, of course, the local recovery centers that have something and people may be looking for a post alternative to assist.
Danielle
Oh, great ideas. Thank you.
Terri
Yeah, well, great. Thanks for looking into trying to do something to help people better themselves and make them healthier. This has nothing to do with healthcare or anything, but certainly stress. I just heard from somebody that I know, they asked, did you hear about the drama that took place in my neighborhood?
Danielle
I’m like, no.
Terri
So apparently there’s a stop sign that gets run on a regular basis in a neighborhood. And there’s a gentleman that lives right by the stop sign, and he has a chair, and he sits in his garage, and he watched somebody run the stop sign. Why the person who ran the stop sign stopped then after. I don’t understand that part. But these two got into an altercation, and it was a woman that ran the stop sign, and I guess she claimed that she has the right to run it because she lives in the neighborhood. So we’ll let that one go for the moment. But they went at it, and he hit her. He punched her in the face. So it’s like, oh, my gosh, people, you know, we talk about the whole.
Terri
I mean, people are more agitated than they have ever been, and if that’s all it takes to get you, like, in that state of agitation, that is nuts.
Danielle
Yeah, we’re definitely seeing a lot of it on the roads, too. Yeah.
Terri
Yeah. So whatever field we’re in, healthcare or not, you know, education, this is learning how to deal with our stresses and our emotions and the way we respond to people. You know, check it like.
Michon
Anything else, right. It is a good practice of it, and we need a lot of different avenues because we’re under different bounce of stress in different arenas.
Terri
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, well, thank you, all three of you, for your time. I appreciate it. It was a good conversation.
Danielle
Thank you.
Michon
Appreciate that, Terri. Thank you.
